Budogu Zen is honoured to interview Man San Ma (4 Dan) from Etobicoke Olympium Kendo / Iaido Club. She is one of the former members of Canadian National Women’s Team and she has shown many memorable matches in multiple World Kendo Championships. Man San is the player who won the daihyousen at the last World Kendo Championships’ Women’s Team Match when Canada defeated USA at the quarter final.
Q: First, could you give us a brief introduction about yourself, kendo experience, dojo, etc.?
A: I began kendo at age 5, with it being a central part of my family. My father was a sensei at the Etobicoke Olympium Kendo / Iaido Club. During university, I ran and instructed at the University of Guelph Kendo Club and achieved the rank of 4th Dan. While I'm not actively practicing kendo now, its principles and values continue to profoundly influence my daily life.
Q: How long did you play as a representative for Canada? In the last World Kendo Championship in Korea, you placed third. What kind of team was it at that time?
A: I represented Canada in kendo from 2009 to 2018, nearly all of my 20s. Our women's team at the last World Championship in Korea was a blend of experienced veterans and promising newcomers. Long-time members Hanaca Yamada, Aki Fukushima, and I had been on the team since 2009, training under Dean Ara Sensei. His return as our coach in 2018, combined with our familiarity and past defeats, fueled our determination to excel at the 17th World Kendo Championships.
I trained on the East Coast with Kyrene Kim, who had previous World Championship experience, and two rookies, Sunmin Kim and Francesca Ho. We had a very strong camaraderie with the 2018 men's team. Training under the same coach united our goals, helped us endure hardships together, and fostered deep mutual respect.
Q: The quarter final match against USA went into the daihyousen. Why were you chosen as the daihyou? Was there a reason?
A: I was chosen for the daihyousen not necessarily because I was the strongest, but because I handle high-pressure scenarios well. Our coach anticipated that E.Kim would be the opponent, so he had me study and prepare to fight her. He told us that if it came to a daihyousen, he would ask who still had the energy to fight. He wanted someone mentally and physically ready. I was ready.
Q: In the daihyousen, with the fight for third place on the line, how did you deal with the pressure during the match?
A: Facing the daihyousen, I didn't feel nervous, but the intensity was palpable. At that moment, it felt almost like a matter of life or death. I was haunted by the pain of feeling responsible for our loss in 2015 at the previous worlds, where I faced E.Kim and lost 2-0 during the senpo match. I never wanted to experience that again. Just moments earlier, I had lost 1-0 to Y.Kil in our chuken match, so I was acutely aware of the stakes if I lost the daihyousen match—for the team and for myself personally.
I felt eager for the chance to redeem myself. What were the chances I would get to face my demons and have a rematch against the opponent I had previously lost to? I was happy E.Kim was on the other side facing me. I had visualized the match countless times in my head, preparing myself for any possible scenario. More than anything, I wanted to succeed for my teammates; we had all given so much to prepare for the Worlds. That’s why, when I hit the men, I made sure I had zanshin. I was determined to run her over if necessary, to ensure that all of the shinpan would raise their flags for Canada. I was not going to let my teammates down.
Q: In the daihyousen match, you scored with splendid men. Why did you choose that technique?
A: Even though I fought the daihyousen match, it was truly a team effort. Kyrene Kim fought E.Kim during taisho and was chosen because she's tough to score against, which frustrated E.Kim. By the time I faced E.Kim, she was flustered, allowing me to capitalize on her mistakes. I was looking for the moment when she would block with her hands raised and then lower for an opportunity for me to strike the men, a strategy my coach, Dean Ara Sensei outlined.
From the start, my coach’s original plan was for me to face E.Kim, so I was very familiar with how to approach the match. However, as the event of the day unfolded, I ended up fighting Y.Kil in chuken instead. When it came to the daihyousen, we anticipated that E.Kim would be my opponent, so I was prepared. I had reviewed E.Kim’s videos extensively, familiarizing myself with her patterns and the situations where she could be dangerous.
Photo Credit: Kendo Photography
Q: How did you feel about leading the team to a third-place finish with your performance?
A: I felt a mix of relief and pride as we finally achieved a podium finish. It was bittersweet knowing this was my last World Championship and the final time sharing the stage with my teammates. While saddened by the journey's end and impending changes in life, I also felt excitement for the future. I deeply appreciated all the support I received throughout this journey.
At the time, I felt a need to prove myself and contribute to the kendo community. I believe I did so to the best of my ability. Though I reflect on our loss to Japan in the semifinals and consider how I could have prepared better, I know I gave my all in training. I choose to accept the results and treasure the overall experience.
Q: What do you think was the key to victory in that match? What kind of preparations did the Canadian team make for the tournament?
A: Our team was driven to win, fueled by players who intimately understood the pain of defeat. We operated as a cohesive unit, respecting and supporting each other throughout. Instead of fighting individually, we fought as a unified team, compensating for weaknesses and magnifying strengths. Throughout the day, we faced several close calls, with each member stepping up to advance us to the next round. Aki Fukushima's exceptional performance consistently turned the tide in our favor. During the quarterfinals against the USA, after I lost the chuken match, Hanaca's ippon equalized the score, and Kyrene's stellar play in taisho set up E.Kim for the daihyousen. I closed out the daihyousen, contributing to our collective success.
In terms of preparation, we trained rigorously, traveling to various locations for intensive sessions and competitions. Our coach meticulously prepared us for potential scenarios at the Worlds and facilitated valuable team training opportunities. Thanks to his connections, we trained at Beppu University in Japan, as well as in Brussels and across the USA.
Q: Were there any special training methods or mindsets?
A: I strongly believe in image training. It may sound cliché, but if your mind can conceive it, you can achieve it. I used to visualize matches in my mind, practicing movements as if sparring with an imaginary opponent, much like shadow boxing. In my do, my dad inscribed a phrase that I often repeat to myself: "Limits are caused by a lack of imagination.
My experience in kendo and belief in image training have fueled my passion for using virtual reality in medical training, which is now a focus in my career.
Q: How did you balance practice and training with your daily life?
A: Balancing training with daily life was a constant challenge, and achieving perfect equilibrium was rare. Athletes often speak of sacrifices for success, yet those around me also adjusted their lives to support my schedule. I had to be selfish to be selfless for my team.In Canada, kendo is amateur, so we largely self-fund our training, though we receive some aid from sponsors and the Canadian Kendo Federation. We had to work or go to school and squeeze in training where we could. My Toronto teammates (Sunmin, Francesca, and Kyrene) and I met at 7 AM by Toronto City Hall for outdoor training—sprinting ramps, jumping benches, stair exercises, and using resistance bands. Not everyone had the same gym memberships, so this routine was affordable and effective. During lunch breaks, I'd rush to the gym for a quick run or rehab, and at home, I'd skip and lift weights. Even bus rides became training moments, practicing timing for a 4-minute match.
Traveling for gasshukus abroad was tough to schedule in. The night before I left for the Worlds I had to stay at work until 7:30pm, then rushed home to finish packing before catching an early morning flight. For over a decade with Team Canada, almost every vacation day was dedicated to training camps; leisure travel was rare due to time and financial constraints. At one point, fatigue caught up with me, leading to an unfortunate ankle fracture. In pictures, you can see me taped up and unable seiza properly during the worlds due to the injury's healing process. Sleep deprivation from travel and late-night practices was always a struggle.
It was difficult to get the balance between kendo and life perfect, but I’m glad I was able to dedicate myself fully when my body was young. I'm happy I kept my career and schooling a priority, so when I left competition, I had other interests to keep me busy.
Q: Were there moments when you felt the responsibility or pressure of being a representative player? How did you overcome them?
A: Yes, I certainly felt the pressure, though it wasn't solely about performance in shiai. The pressure stemmed from setting an example through leadership and supporting my teammates. Balancing the responsibility of guiding them in the right direction while ensuring they benefited from the experience was challenging. For me, more than achieving a podium spot, their personal development was paramount. While there are situations I could have handled differently in hindsight, I gained invaluable lessons from the experience.
I also felt intense pressure to foster the women's kendo community, particularly on the East Coast. Besides focusing on my own training, I felt compelled to exemplify what women could achieve by demonstrating leadership, strategic thinking, fearlessness, discipline, and courage. I dedicated time to organizing community events for female kendoka. Often, I felt frustrated by the slow pace of progress, wishing I could accelerate change more effectively. However, I now realize that the responsibility for nurturing women's kendo shouldn't solely fall on women. Male leadership that actively promotes and supports the growth of female kendo is indispensable, and having male allies is crucial for continuous advancement.
My one regret upon leaving kendo is that I wasn't able to do more for the community, both for men and women. I didn’t pass on what I learned in the manner I had hoped, and I consider that a significant loss.
Q: With the 19th World Kendo Championships starting soon in Italy, what do you expect from this Canadian team? Do you have any words for them?
A: The players, coaches, and managers should feel immensely proud of their journey, especially their dedication to training through the challenges of the COVID pandemic while staying focused on a distant goal. While I'm less involved in kendo's day-to-day now, I've seen the new generation of girls at a few taikai, and it fills me with joy to witness their talent and enthusiasm. I have no doubt they can achieve great things.
Years of dreaming and training culminate in a few minutes at the taikai. I encourage all players to give their all and leave no regrets on the floor. I eagerly await hearing about this team’s journey and their experiences!
